evangelical 360°

Ep. 36 / Faith Without Borders: The Radical Reach of the Pentecostal Church ► David Wells

• Host Brian Stiller • Season 1 • Episode 36

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What happens when spiritual passion meets thoughtful engagement? Rev. Dr. David Wells, General Superintendent of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, takes us on a remarkable journey through the explosive growth of the Pentecostal movement from its humble beginnings to becoming the largest Protestant movement worldwide.

Against the backdrop of increasing secularization, Wells reveals a surprising counter-narrative: Pentecostal churches are experiencing "incremental growth" with "record levels of first-time responses to Jesus." His approach rejects false dichotomies between heart and mind, embracing instead what he calls "wholehearted, whole-minded, whole-life discipleship."

Perhaps most fascinating is Wells' unique role as chaplain for multiple Olympic Games, where he developed best practices for multi-faith environments. This work required building trust across religious divides while maintaining his evangelical convictions—a skill increasingly valuable in our polarized world.

Wells offers fresh perspectives on denominational identity, describing a shift from rigid "franchise models" to a more flexible "center-set" approach that maintains theological integrity while allowing contextual adaptation. He addresses leadership development challenges with multiple pathways for ministry preparation, including traditional academic routes, second-career ministers, and global perspectives.

For anyone interested in how faith communities can remain vibrant in changing times, Wells provides wisdom drawn from five decades of ministry. His story demonstrates how spiritual renewal comes through both passionate engagement and respectful collaboration, offering hope for the future of the church in an increasingly complex world.

You can learn more about Rev. Dr. David Wells and the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada through their website and Facebook.

And you can share this episode using hashtag #Evangelical360 and join the conversation online! 

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Brian Stiller:

Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360. I'm your host, brian Stiller, and I'm pleased to share with you another conversation with leaders, changemakers and influencers impacting Christian life around the world. We'd love for you to be a part of the podcast by sharing this episode. Use hashtag Evangelical360 and join the conversation on YouTube in the comments below. My guest today is the Reverend Dr David Wells, General Superintendent of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada.

Brian Stiller:

Dr David Wells, general Superintendent of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, vice Chair of the Pentecostal World Fellowship and former chaplain and chair of chaplaincy for the Olympic Games on six occasions. In just over a century, the Pentecostal Church has grown from an obscure and uneducated Christian community to the largest Protestant movement in the world. Christian community to the largest Protestant movement in the world. Its growth staggers the imagination. Serving as the Canadian General Superintendent since 2008, dave has endeared himself to many around the world. His ability to connect with and work alongside those of other faiths is an inspiration and perhaps to some unexpected and full disclosure. I was raised in the PAOC, my father was a senior leader and I was ordained by this body, which is why I'm especially pleased to share this conversation with you today, david Wells. So good to have you here on Evangelical 360.

David Wells:

Great to be with you, Brian. Love chatting with you, it's going to be great.

Brian Stiller:

David as General Superintendent, which really means Bishop in the Pentecostal Church community, head of Canada. It would be interesting for you to describe to us how this movement came about over the last century.

David Wells:

Brian, it's great studying, great to be part of a movement that tracks in many ways back to the early 20th century. But even before that there were renewal and revival movements throughout the world. It really was global. And then it began to zero in on the expressions of the Spirit that spoke of what Jesus had promised about. The outpouring of the Spirit was being fulfilled at the turn of the 20th century, again all over the globe, but especially with some key points like Azusa Street, toronto, hebden Mission and over in Scandinavia, of course, and other contexts. And it was just this sense that the Spirit, as promised, was being poured out in a fresh way upon the life of the Church at the beginning of the 20th century, and that's only increased and grown over the last century.

Brian Stiller:

It's interesting after 1900 years, when Jesus was on the earth, this new understanding of the Spirit was revealed to the church. Why did it take so long, and what was going on at the beginning of the 20th century that would give rise to this new understanding at?

David Wells:

Yeah, you're a student of church history. I love reading you that. You know the church has existed since Jesus commissioned us, when he was on the planet, you know, and the church was launched. So I really respect church history all the way through.

David Wells:

And one thing about church history is there's clearly times when the Spirit works upon the people of God in order to renew, remind, liberate from when it wanders from the principal things that Jesus said the church would be about.

David Wells:

So in the area of spiritual renewal and outpouring of the Spirit, you know there's pop-ups all over church history. But it seems that, as you know, the early stages of globalization took place where there was more cross-pollination globally. It's maybe not surprising that at that same time, then, what Jesus has promised about you'll receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you'll be my witnesses that there was this whole new energy from the Spirit poured out on the church to be these global witnesses to make sure that the message went around the whole globe in a way that the previous centuries it was renewal. Here renewal related to understanding, justification by faith, or renewal related to other dimensions of the good news and of what is true from Jesus' life and ministry. But as this globalization takes place and as there's more and more awareness of the Spirit being poured out on sons and daughters on every tongue, tribe, nation, that that's pretty simultaneous with where the whole Pentecostal movement starts to really take off and becomes more and more a global expression.

Brian Stiller:

And what did this movement bring to the Church as to the person and the work of the Spirit?

David Wells:

What do we know now about the Spirit that we didn't words that were a steady stream of emphasis, as we read right from the prophets, for instance Isaiah, that picked up in Jesus' call that you wait until you receive power from on high so that you can be these witnesses. And they wait. And so we celebrate what happened on Pentecost and celebrate the outpouring of the Spirit so that the church can be the church. And then they live it out. You've got the ebbs and flows of church history. You've got the ebbs and flows of spiritual renewal and then at times, such a strident institutionalization that you wonder is there any life remaining in the life of the church? And it carries. You have to think globally.

David Wells:

So at some moments renewals taking place in a very similar manner to what we see experienced in the 20th and 21st centuries, and other times it's very dormant. We needed Luther, you know. We needed Calvin, we needed the other voices. We needed what God's doing currently in the global church, in the majority world church, to remind us. And so classical Pentecostalism in the early 20th century. We needed that renewal, we needed that reminder of the spirits poured out in doing us to do exactly what Jesus said, so that you can go and be my witnesses.

Brian Stiller:

Now, here in Canada, where you serve as leader of the Pentecostal Church, numbers of church attendance has diminished over the last few years. What's the case with the Pentecostal Church?

David Wells:

Well, the good news is, for at least our circle, is that we've seen incremental growth. Of course, with COVID there was some plateauing and we always deal with those who indicate that we are their church family, sort of call it your orb, and then within the orb is then those who what's the average attendance at the major gathering of our different churches, our disciple-making communities? But there's been incremental growth even since COVID and it's a case of again, something's happened in the spirit that's awakened in the hearts of both people, in the life of the church following Jesus and in the culture. There's an awakening of hunger and there's a need and there's a sense of there's got to be something more. And I think, just even in these last few years, there's been a convergence, even in Canada where people are asking the good questions. So right now we're seeing almost record levels of first-time responses to Jesus, record levels of water baptism taking place.

David Wells:

That's now. So I'm not saying that with a triumphalism or cockiness, because there's a lot of spiritual challenge and we have our challenges, especially with a future orientation, but at the moment then there's life.

Brian Stiller:

And at a time when secularization has become a dominant theme in the West, in Europe, in North America, it's almost surprising that the Pentecostal message, which tends to be more enthusiastic and bombastic than, say, your mainline or your old-line Protestants, it's surprising that this is the place where spiritual resurgence is occurring.

David Wells:

Yeah, and I mean I always war a bit, of course, against, as you do, against some of the stereotypical understandings of a particular group, be they Pentecostals, evangelicals or whatever. But we're very passionate about wholehearted, whole-minded, whole-life disciples of Jesus. So wholehearted means your spirit is engaged, You're passionate, You're open to the work of the Spirit, you worship the Lord in spirit and truth, so, but whole-minded means you, you know, I got a brain, I've got a graduate degree, I care about loving God with my mind and thinking things through and observing the culture and being a bit of a sociologist and a missiologist, you know. So it's not an either-or Jesus and back to the original Shema. So it's not an either or Jesus and back to the original Shema. You're not allowed to do this differentiation almost, or try to pick your favorite parcel, part of the parcel, and then say, but I won't bother with the whole spirited side of it, or I won't bother with the whole life side of it.

David Wells:

And Pentecostals are actually far better, and I give honor to my previous generations of people in the Pentecost Church. We've actually been a lot better at full life than often giving credit for it, because we care to do justice and love, mercy and walk humbly and be among people and go to the least reached and the most vulnerable. That's a pattern, that's not just a new discovery. So I just think it's a case of dealing with what Jesus called us to be and what the Shema was first about. You know, we do it wholehearted, whole-minded and with our whole lives. And if that looks strange to a secular world, I don't think so because, frankly, the secular world got quite evangelistic world. I don't think so because, frankly, the secular world got quite evangelistic and has been passionate about things. And it's just the case of okay, what's true and what our values are, and let's meet in the public square and have some great conversations about that.

Brian Stiller:

How did you begin in ministry? Where did all this start for you?

David Wells:

Yeah, so I didn't know Jesus as a child. I was one of those rare boomer kids that didn't go to a church. My family didn't go to a church, and then my aunt and uncle said this isn't right and took us to Sunday school, and happened to be Pentecostal. I believe there was some sovereignty involved, but anyways. I believe there was some sovereignty involved, but anyways. So then, as a school kid I'm getting integrated into a great local church in Edmonton Central Tabernacle. My pastor is the prince of all pastors, robert Tatinger.

David Wells:

So here I am as a younger guy just starting to pick up on models, and Sunday school teachers will lean in and say, dave, I can really see God's call in your life. And so by 17, I was in Bible college and fortunately, the Lord brought a great lady from New Brunswick to go to the same Bible college and you know we've been married almost 50 years and away you go. But it was very strongly, these positive influences, strongly, these positive influences, positive models mixed with the inner call of God that you know I landed, starting as a 19-year-old youth pastor. I mean, pity those kids back in the day, but away we went.

Brian Stiller:

So, yeah, it's just this tracking of strong models and great influence from the Lord. What's been at the heart of your leadership, what's been the model that has been central to your ministry and to your leadership?

David Wells:

Yeah, I would, and this got clarified for me through the years. I remember being at Cape Town in 2010 for Lausanne and, you know, listening to a session that kind of further solidified it, and Tim Keller, you know, and his conversation about urban. But it touched on the great requirement and I realized that, as I earlier described, I do think I understand the great command and its implications to my life, but also my leadership how do you lead people in loving God heart, soul, mind, strength and loving your neighbor as yourself? That session and others and I would have already had this as seeds in my life or expressions but the great requirement gives us clarity about how you love your neighbor as yourself. You do justice, you love mercy, you walk humbly. So I'm looking for that in the Pentecostal community, the evangelical community, the Christian community.

David Wells:

I'm looking for it in this polarized age that we've lived in. You know, I was looking for it during COVID, current situations that we're facing globally. I'm looking for leadership that does justice, loves mercy, walks humbly. How are we doing, folks? We've got some leadership that's the direct opposite of that, but in the life of the church, that's our calling to do the great requirement and then, empowered by the Spirit we go and we fulfill the great commission. You know we go and we make disciplined followers of Jesus, see them transformed by the good news so that they will love God heart, soul, mind, strength, love their neighbors as themselves, do justice, love, mercy, walk humbly and empowered by the spirit, and you make disciple, making communities and you work with leaders to think that through.

David Wells:

How do we see a spiritual vitality that will really have churches that are not same old, same old just going through the motion, but they're actually alive in spirit, they're actually alive in mission, they're actually engaged with the community. You know they're fulfilling those greats and you know that's in my leadership what I've tried to maintain as the center and my picture of the center. So a center set identity rather than fixed set. So we're not a franchise anymore. When I grew up as a kid and where I described we had all the programs flow out of Toronto, you know we all knew that if you were a PLC church you had this curriculum and that wasn't all bad. But those aren't the days anymore. What I'm asking of our churches is like a strong centrifugal force of living out these main things, these main things, and then express it in your diverse ways in the urban context as compared to rural Saskatchewan as compared to out on the East Coast. You know I expect a lot of diversity, to be quite honest.

Brian Stiller:

So denominationalism, is it died, or is it just being reformatted?

David Wells:

It's being reformatted. It's being reformatted to can you see your leaders, your churches, your people aligned to main things that you represent, both currently but also tied to you know your history and, in our case, some Pentecostal history and so on, but they expect broader than that. They don't expect to be put in a little box. Now some people and I respect the, you know my ecumenical involvements respect the liturgical church. I was with a colleague that I'm guiding through a graduate program right now, who's the head of the Evangelical Orthodox Church.

David Wells:

Now, think about that combination. So, so there you go, you know. So God's doing a lot of things, but they have some distinctions. There's the liturgical worship as compared to free form and so on, and so you know, I think you've got to fellowship, a denominational group, whatever You've got to have a center set about, this is the nuclear core. Whatever you've got to have a center set about, this is the nuclear core. This is what draws people to participate, whether in local churches or an international mission about who we are, but it's not in competition to the rest of the body of Christ.

Brian Stiller:

That begs the question. Evangelicals are competitive. We divide a great deal. How do we respond to the issue of unity? And Jesus calls, and in his prayer to the Father he said they will know us by our unity. Unity is an evangelistic message. In other words, yeah.

David Wells:

So I think the different components of the body of Christ need to know what platform are they providing for people to gather on, to participate in, to be part of all that God's desiring to do so? Of course I've been joyfully involved over the years with the evangelical community and chair of EFC and so on, and that was no problem at all because we're evangelically aligned. But we also know there's a broader body of Christ in Canada and globally that are evangelically aligned, like my evangelical Orthodox friend. So I introduced him to the EFC in our last meetings, you know, because there's an evangelical alignment about the call to. You know the quadrangle and the four dimensions of the expression of God's work in people's lives and the call to diversion, transit.

David Wells:

And I do know the people that in the broader expression of Christianity are not evangelically aligned and it usually leads to distinctions about their Christology. It leads to distinctions about some ethical questions and so on. And that doesn't mean I disrespect or even lose friendship. It's just I know we're not evangelically aligned around Jesus as the one and only. And you know the message of conversion is compared to neo-universalism which is rampant in so many contexts today. So that's not me, that's not my platform. My platform is I'm evangelically aligned.

David Wells:

In Pentecostal we believe in the Spirit's work now, spirit empowerment, power to be witnesses. So if you're on that platform and there's broader again, communities, power 21 and others that I'm engaged with, even globally and does that mean I agree hook, line and sinker with every expression of the Pentecostal Charismatic Church? No, I've got some tough days, but I choose respect again and I choose to see where we're aligned and what platforms we share, and as long as we're not verging onto the heretical and falling off the table, if I could put it that way. So there's some in the. I put it this way, even in the Pentecostal world there's historically.

David Wells:

We've had the classical Pentecostals, then you've got the neo-Pentecostals and other charismatic movements and now the global expressions. You know Well some of them stretch me pretty far. To be quite honest, what becomes their principle? You know, christian nationalism within a charismatic context would stretch me a little bit more than I'm personally going to go or platform we're going to provide. But still I'll respect people as brothers and sisters in Christ and be on mission with them. Sometimes you get stretched.

Brian Stiller:

Let me change subjects here for a moment. You've had a unique role in the global Olympic movement as a chaplain. Now it doesn't strike me that a person who is Pentecostal and very evangelical would fit naturally into that kind of activity or role. Describe what that has meant to you and how it came about.

David Wells:

Well, my wife would say, if you, you know, if two kids are playing in a puddle and you call it sports, they would probably watch it. So first of all, there's a historical bias to sports. You know, I grew up playing hockey in Edmonton when I was five years old. Right, I mean, go, oilers, go. So you know it's. You know I like sports and it's the context that I made relationships and you got burdened for some of the parts of the sports world that had little or no Christian influence or impact, that became aware of that. Tie that into a global sports chaplaincy movement where there's a lot of great mentors and people that had established relationships with key organizers and so on. But then there came opportunities, including, for instance, I'm serving in British Columbia and the Winter Olympics are coming to Vancouver.

David Wells:

I've had enough experience by then to know that you've got to build trust with the organizing committee in a genuine way. You really want the games to be a success, but part of it is they got to pull off a multi-faith center and, without exception, every time I walked into an organizing committee's office they almost didn't realize they had to do it, until they get in their books and realize that's part of the bid. And then you say who here knows how to do that? Well, they don't. So you come with your vision, your burden and you develop an expertise over time about how to have a multi-faith center. So you've got to know how to relate to different groups of faith with respect, that they actually know that you're going to help them meet the best practices related to a multi-faith center, just like we would do in chaplaincy at a university or a hospital or serving a police force or so on. In the armed forces there's best practices about how to develop a multi-faith offering. So I just became well-versed in that and experienced in that and I witnessed the good, bad and the ugly of where things can go and then became a resource to organizers to say this can be done and it can be done right and you will not have a faith war in your village. You will have people singing the praises of the faith community that came to serve and right inside of this athlete's village.

David Wells:

So we built best practices. I've written the manual on it and the way we go, and then we've had very important times and good experiences and I've made a lot of friends in other faith groups, genuine colleagues and friends To do that. Well, you've got to know where you disagree, you agree to disagree. You respect one another. But no, my view of personal life with God, through Christ, is not shared with my Hindu colleague or my Muslim colleague. But boy, I got best friends in those communities that you respect. But we land differently about what we're then offering day to day, week to week.

David Wells:

But in the athlete's village we can still say to athletes OK, if you're a Muslim athlete, we've got an offering for you. You come for daily burners, we'll have an imam ready to go, and sometimes the games have occurred during Ramadan. Talk about a workout, you know making sure that was prepared. So it is about relationship. It's about respect, it's about best practices. It's about respect. It's about best practices, it's earning trust and when that's done correctly, people are served and you're not called upon to deny the things that are closest to your heart when it comes to faith and your beliefs. They're just an offering that's given as part of those events. So it was important.

David Wells:

We were there, like some will remember, the Vancouver Olympics very first day that games were opening up, the death of an athlete. Well, the vice president of the games comes to me and said Dave, if we've ever needed you, we need you now because you're there. You're on the grounds and right away, within an hour and a half, I could have a chaplain in Whistler who's speaking in Russian to talk to the Georgian coach and help him through his grief of losing his athlete, who also happened to be a relative of his. And then we ran memorial rooms throughout the games and hundreds and hundreds of athletes and volunteers came and cried and signed a book that went back across to the family of the athlete in Georgia. So I have those memories because it was done right.

Brian Stiller:

David, you have served as chair of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada and other global evangelical communities. Over the last few years there's been a politicization of the name evangelical and I'm wondering do you see that as a name that's worth saving and preserving and advancing?

David Wells:

Two prongs, I think. For those who this platform picture I used and evangelically aligned. I think we have to have clarity that there is a good place to understand ourselves as evangelicals and evangelically aligned and what it means to keep honoring that message of Christ. To keep honoring that message of Christ From off of that platform, how we reflect ourselves to the community, how we brand ourselves, title ourselves. We can certainly look at variations on a theme.

David Wells:

I'm probably part of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada to this day and have colleagues on the world of Evangelical Alliance. What would be the new branding? There have been many conversations about that. But yet there can be expressions off of that platform that aren't necessarily labeled per se as evangelical or whatever, and so people use variations on a theme, just like Pentecostals do. There are very few of my local churches per se have Pentecostal in the branding. And yet you'll walk in and you'll sense the Spirit at work and you'll worship with the global community in a Pentecostal way, you know. So do I get nauseous about that? Well, not if their leaders still remain aligned with our mission and, you know, are in good relationship and so on. So is that the same for the broader evangelical table moving forward. Well, I guess we'll keep processing that, won't we?

Brian Stiller:

David, you've had a track record of collaboration with others. David, you've had a track record of collaboration with others. What is there within your?

David Wells:

Pentecostal framework of theology and experience. That would give you an openness to honestly consider others as being legitimate and of value, which gives you this spirit of collaboration. The picture I go back to about mean things and what's at the core, and if I find somebody, that what's at the core, that's who they are. They're a follower of Jesus. They honor God's word. They love God, heart, soul, mind and strength. Word they love God, heart, soul, mind and strength. You start there and you build as far as. What table are we talking about? What level do we have to be? Are you wanting to come and affiliate with the POC? Well, there's more details to that alignment than oh. You're a friend from a historically neo-charismatic movement that loves Jesus and has different views on renewal or certain ways.

David Wells:

The Spirit works Well. We've got a lot we can agree on, a lot of contexts we can be in together. Sometimes you'll go off to your favorite speaker and events and I probably won't, you know, and vice versa, and I think you know. The Spirit's poured out on sons and daughters. The Spirit's poured out on every tongue, tribe, nation, and that's my default I start with.

David Wells:

I'm connected at the core with this person at the deepest levels of Spirit, of what Christ has done in our lives, about our honoring of God and worshipers. We live in truth, secondary and tertiary truth, not always. Okay. Well, let's agree to disagree. I may not campaign for the same candidate in a Canadian election that you will, but you know it's like we have to be able to agree to disagree in order to have a good relationship as well. Some of us have been married for quite a few years and we totally understand that think, maybe more so now than ever, brian. I've also learned how to apologize and repent and sometimes be a symbolic person in that realm and you know, to our indigenous peoples and lead the PLC to engage about our historic relationship with our indigenous leaders and come to a conference with a mutual letter of apology that our indigenous people also wanted to sign back to the non-Indigenous.

Brian Stiller:

David, I'll never forget the moment in Albania when you got up and made a confession to the more liturgical denominations. As a member of your denomination in Canada, I was singularly proud of both your courage and your evident skill in doing it and saying it the way you did. But as Bishop of Canada, head of the Pentecostal churches, is there a lack of pastoral candidates? How is the church doing in Canada?

David Wells:

Well, we're seeing this incremental growth, like I said, in our orb and God's at work in fresh ways, which we're celebrating. But I also symbolize somebody used the you know, the imagery of you know, this big bulge working its way through right.

David Wells:

Coming up.

Brian Stiller:

You know the pig in the python.

David Wells:

There you go, you've got the exact phraseology. So you know, those of us who are builders and boomers we're pretty well moving through, you know, and that does leave a demographic just straight numbers gap. You know that has to be filled. It's interesting as that is being responded to expectations about official ministry and how the tracks you follow they're all adjusting, they're all moving. So we're seeing that we don't just develop young women and men through their four-year programs coming through the colleges that's still part of our development but you also have a good number of people second career or people from within the life of the church that are making commitments to you know, train for ministry and become credentialed, and that's as strong a track as the track that would come up through full year development. And then, of course, thank God for the global church and those that have come to join us and the large growth factor there and those who are participating with us, you know, as credentialed leaders and just people in the life of the church.

David Wells:

So that's a strong part of especially a Pentecostal constituency where so much is happening globally, that gets reflected back into the life of the Canadian church, thank God, you know, and it's not just about numbers, it's just about the life, the vitality, the mission, and so those factors become things you're all taking into account and yet we've really prioritized.

David Wells:

Even our strategic vision group of our general executive has been about reaching, discipling and developing the leadership of children, youth and young adults, and I'm going to our general executive with a whole and I'm going to our general executive with a whole continuing emphasis on that, but with resources mentorshipone platform that is encouraging younger men and women in their calling. We've published gift books for all our constituency about. We the Called, especially oriented to younger leaders, both Now whether they want to actually end up in the very type of role that Dave Wells has lived out the last five decades. That could be a good question to ask. But you know there's a future orientation to this calling and we want to facilitate it, build platforms and then tell them rise and go way beyond anything we've ever seen.

Brian Stiller:

So it is dominating, but there's hope, there's good signs so for somebody there out there who's who's interested, wondering whether they have a role, what path might they take towards considering a call to ministry, pastoral ministry or some other kind of missional activity?

David Wells:

So in our context, a lot of people are initiating that right through their local churches, talking to their pastor and, like I was indicating, some of the pastors are just approaching their districts and saying I've got this person, I got a calling. Well then, usually they'll often stay, remained involved in the life of the church but be supplemented in their theological training and so on. They'll be able to draw off of different resources or different institutions even while beginning that track. Others will be pointed towards our districts especially and help to find how to plug in and get on the track to ordained ministry or credentialed ministry, you know. So it's multifaceted again, but the main pipeline is through the local church and then connecting with our districts. And if our offices approach, we find the right pipeline for them to connect with and make sure they can track with us.

David Wells:

Some of that is the international interest to align with us. But yeah, it's a matter of saying, man, I'm sensing a stirring and calling in my life. We've got our younger leaders always on the lookout for those that are in their youth, young adult ministries that are saying, boy, I'm sensing like God's calling me to something. Well, how are they going to facilitate that and providing even events that point young men and young women towards getting equipped for the calling that's on their life.

Brian Stiller:

After five decades in ministry, what would you say to a younger David Wells today?

David Wells:

Okay, that's kind of bizarre, but I would say you made some really smart decisions along the way. You listened to the right people and you didn't listen to the wrong people. There were points of divide that it could have easily ruined my life and calling what was the basis on which you chose one over the other points?

David Wells:

of divide that it could have easily ruined my life and calling. What was the basis on which you chose one over the other? Were they about main things? Were they honoring the core of what we were called to be, as far as in the life of the church and in my own personal calling? And you know, people come along and they'll derail you, they'll make you about all about this or all about that, and so it's a matter of saying yes to the right things and the right people.

David Wells:

But I also would want to reiterate, and, david, say no to, you know, things that will derail you, derail your calling or get you way off on a sidetrack that's not going to really amount to anything. And be about those main things and always do it alongside of the people God puts into your life from within the body of Christ, and enjoy the diversity of that. Like, don't get in a little box, a little franchise, and say this is the only influences that are going to be in my life. I went from being questioned about my loyalty to the POC in the 1990s to being the general superintendent and, first of all, the district superintendent in 2001. So when people were still doing the franchise model and I looked like I had broader relationships and broader influences. So I would say to the young Dave Wells again you know, be open to the diversity that's in the body of Christ and let God do what he wants to do in your life and calling through some unexpected relationships.

Brian Stiller:

David Wells, thank you for joining us on Evangelical 360 today.

David Wells:

Great to be with you, Brian. Thank you.

Brian Stiller:

Thank you, david, for joining us today and for inspiring us to reach beyond our own familiar traditions and tribes, and thank you for being a part of the podcast. Be sure to share this episode, use hashtag Evangelical360 and join the conversation on YouTube. If you'd like to learn more about today's guest, be sure to check the show notes for links and info, and if you haven't already received my free e-book and newsletter, just go to brianstillercom. Thanks again. Until next time, don't miss the next interview. Be sure to subscribe to Evangelical 360 on YouTube.