evangelical 360°
A timely and relevant new podcast that dives into the contemporary issues which are impacting Christian life and witness around the world. Guests include leaders, writers, and influencers, all exploring faith from different perspectives and persuasions. Inviting lively discussion and asking tough questions, evangelical 360° is hosted by Brian Stiller, Global Ambassador for the World Evangelical Alliance. Our hope is that each person listening will come away informed, encouraged, challenged and inspired!
evangelical 360°
Ep. 46 / The Alpha Revival: A Simple Way to Faith and Belonging ► Nicky Gumbel
A free meal, a short film and an open chair can change a life. That’s the quiet power behind Alpha, the simple, hospitable format Nicky Gumbel helped steward from a London parish into a global movement—inviting people to explore the meaning of life and the person of Jesus without pressure or pretense.
In this conversation Nicky talks about the early missteps of street evangelism, the moment Alpha “went viral,” and why the small‑group experience often does what a podium can’t: it builds trust, honours questions, and makes space for real encounter. Gumbel also discusses the Alpha retreat weekend, focused on the Holy Spirit, where many participants say their change arrived not through argument but love shown.
This episode might also act as a field guide for leaders. Start with Jesus, not with winning arguments. Trade expertise for authenticity. Host, don’t perform. Serve the people in front of you and trust that joy spreads with friendship. If you care about evangelism, church growth, or simply helping a friend ask better questions, you’ll find practical insight and hopeful stories here.
You can learn more about Nicky Gumbel and the Alpha course through their website, Facebook and Instagram.
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Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360. I'm your host, Brian Stiller. There are times when something presents itself to the world and we can almost see it as life-changing. For me, our guest today has brought into our world of faith a way of introducing people to Jesus of Nazareth in ways unprecedented in the history of the church. Nicky Gumbel helped create Alpha, a simple but profoundly influential format where people can ask honest questions in their search for faith. And who would have predicted in an increased secularizing age that more and more people are asking the really big questions of life? Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? Nicky Gumbel both created and nurtured this simple but impactful ministry in the heart of a radically secular city, London, England. Today, literally worldwide, what he learned and then fashioned has been used in ways we never would have imagined. So I'm honored to have him as our guest today. I will try and ask the question you would like to ask if you were sitting where I am today, and then to probe the underlying issues that have helped make his initiative so vital in the lives of people as they sincerely search for these probing life-driving issues. Nicky Gumbel has been pastor of Holy Brompton Church in London, England, and director of Alpha. Here's a podcast I wanted to make for you, and one I know will enrich your life. And thanks to you for being a part of this podcast. As you listen, would you consider sharing this episode with a friend? And when you do, insert hashtag Evangelical360. And if you haven't, please hit the subscribe by joining the conversation on YouTube in the comments below. Now to my guest, Nicky Gumbel. Nicky Gumbel, thanks for joining us on Evangelical 360.
NickyGumbel:Delighted to be with you, Brian.
BrianStiller:Nicky, I was raised during the time when Billy Graham epitomized public evangelism. But I must say that what you have done with Alpha, you have revolutionized the way Christians do public evangelism. It is simply stunning and remarkable without precedent. And so having you as a guest today on our podcast, I'm so pleased to inform people and help them to understand both who you are and what led you to do this and how it's working. So I guess the best place to start is Nicky, what prepared you in lights to take and become so pivotal in the strategy of public evangelism?
NickyGumbel:I think it was my own experience growing up. I growing up, I wasn't brought up as a Christian. My father was sort of a Holocaust survivor, really. I mean, his family, many of his family had died in the Holocaust in Germany. And he came to England and was, although he had been baptized and confirmed, I've recently discovered in 1918, but it was to assimilate. And he'd always remained a free thinker, as they said, an agnostic. So he he was definitely not a churchgoer. My mother was not a churchgoer either. So I didn't have a Christian upbringing in that sense. But at the age of 18, through some friends of mine encountering Jesus, I read the New Testament. And as I read the New Testament, it was as if the person of Jesus that I was reading about almost sort of emerged from the pages. And I encountered him. And that was so life-changing. Jesus said, I came that you might have life and life in all its fullness. And when I experienced that relationship, the that moment was so life-changing. I wanted everyone to know. And I just thought, this is too good to hold to myself. It'd be so selfish not to tell people. Because Jesus looking back, I had a void that was filled, a spiritual void. I wanted to tell people, and I I sort of flailed around, I suppose, because I didn't know how to do it. I just thought it it would be obvious if I said to all my atheist friends, look, actually, it's true that they believe. And then I sort of went on evangelism courses, and you had to go out on the street and with a questionnaire, question one, what did you have for breakfast? Question 20, would you like to ask Jesus into your life? And you know, I tried all this, I tried knocking on doors, I tried, I there was everything that I tried street, I did everything to tell people. And nothing, I mean, occasionally people came to faith, but it was very rare. And then I stumbled on this thing, Alpha, which was really a discipleship course, which I wasn't interested in, but we found people were coming on it and encountering Jesus, who were outside the church. So we we changed it into an a course for people outside the church, and then we found that so many people were coming to faith, and then other churches got interested, spread around the world, and over 35 million people have done it around the world.
BrianStiller:It's remarkable. For people who don't know, give us a thumbnail sketch of what Alpha is, what it seeks to do, and how it operates.
NickyGumbel:We call it an opportunity to explore the meaning of life. Yeah, I think everybody is searching for three things. Everyone's searching for love, everyone's searching for meaning, and everyone's searching to belong. And at some point, most people ask the question: is there more to life than this? You know, is there more to life than just survival, eating, you know, going to work, retiring, whatever? Is there more? Is there an ultimate meaning or purpose? And but but the it these kind of questions are very hard to explore. With, you know, if you go to a football match, you can't really say, well, what do you think the meaning of life is? Or if you're down the pub, can you know tell me what you think the mean? There isn't really a place for it. But people really want to do it. So Alpha is a way to do that in a very low-key, unthreatening, unpressurized, non-judgmental atmosphere with a group of people who are like you exploring. I suppose it it's not totally dissimilar from AA or you know, one of the recovery courses, in the sense that you've got that you walk into an atmosphere of total acceptance and total non-judgment, and you're all exploring together. And it's not you're not being preached at, you're you're hearing a talk. So people come, they have a meal together, which is a way to connect and make friends, and then they hear a talk, usually using a video, and the talks who is Jesus, why did he die? How can I have faith? How do I pray? How can I read the Bible? Guidance, all these kinds of things, the Holy Spirit, how do I resist evil? The things that about the Christian faith, about which all parts of the church are agreed. So it's run by the Pentecostal Church, the uh Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, Salvation Army, every everybody runs it because it's the things we agree about. I mean, all Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that he rose from the dead, that he died for us. All Christians believe in faith, all Christians believe in the Bible, prayer, guidance, etc. So it's like half an hour of that. And then and then I think one of the most important things is that you then have coffee or whatever, and then you go into small groups. And the small groups kind of peer-led in a way, because the hosts and the helpers simply ask questions, usually about people's experience. So after the talk on the cross, you know, the question would be: has anybody here ever needed to forgive someone? And that you know produces a really interesting discussion. The next question is, has anybody here ever needed to ask for forgiveness? And that's just riveting when people start to talk about some of the things in their life. You know, then it's you know, if it's the Bible, has anybody here ever tried reading the Bible or heard the Bible being read? Prayer. Has anybody here ever tried praying? You know, how did you get on? What did you experience? So a lot of the talk is about what people have experienced. Of course, people give their opinion, that's fine, and there may be uh it's always very respectful. People say, you know, when people come, they're atheists or agnostics or from some other faith background, and everyone's very respectful and listens to them, and we explore together. Uh it's not the the person leading is called a host because it's more like a it's it's not a they're not leaders, they're not teachers, they are just hosts, and the other people are helpers. So you have two hosts, two helpers, eight to ten guests. And what we found is many people who come on the course would come as agnostics or atheists, and they discover faith on the course in a very low-key way. But equally, some people will come as an atheist and leave as an atheist. And that in a way is kind of means that it's very they know it's very unpressurized. And some people, even who are atheists, will come back and help on the next course because they've enjoyed it so much, they've made friends, and then often when they come back and help, that's when they they actually come to faith themselves. The word opportunity is key. So it's opportunity for the guests, and it's opportunity for churches as well. We never say to churches, you must run alpha. If you have a better way, go that do the better way. But if you're if you want to reach people outside of the church, and particularly young people, the average age at HGB is 27. Most of the guests are between 18 and 35. Um, and that if you want to reach that group of people with the good news about Jesus, we found alpha is one way that works. But we don't say you must do it, but if you do want to do it, okay, we'll run a conference or we'll give you training so that you can do it. And then what happens is churches start running it. Now there are tens of thousands of churches around the world running it, and then their neighbors here, oh, you've got you've grown. Oh, I was just talking to someone today from Scotland who the church was down to 50 people and they started running alpha and they've grown to 300. And um, you know, that uh people hear about that and they say, Oh, what is it? Well, we've been running alpha. And then I had about a church in cut in one of the starns where there it's the most non-evangelized place in the world. There were something like 0.01% of the population is Christian, and this church has 500 people in it, which is absolutely massive for them. And the person who was telling the story said, he asked the pastor, how's this happened? He said, Well, we've been running alpha. How many times have you run alpha? 74 times. Um, and he's grown the largest church in whatever it, whatever star it is. And then people hear about it, and then so then they want, so then they'll run a conference. That kind of church will run a conference to help other churches in the area. One for Chinese pastors. We had three and a half thousand Chinese pastors coming to because they'd heard about what's happening. And and there's now a Chinese version. It's it's a hundred percent Chinese, it's Chinese presenters, testimonies filmed in China, uh directed by someone Chinese, and we're doing the same for Africa.
BrianStiller:Nicky, remarkable story. I like to I'd like to cycle back for your reflection on how this exploded. I mean, here you are, you're on staff in a nice Anglican church in London, and Anglicans aren't known for their bombastic evangelism, but you developed this nice program. It sounds very orderly and creative and innovative and so forth, but something happened to explode it to 35 million attenders. As you look back on it, what was there a pivotal moment? Was there an idea? Was there an experience? Was there a moment when this really became something more than just what a few churches are doing?
NickyGumbel:There have been many, many, many pivotal moments along the road. The first one was the first course I was involved in in October 1990. Halfway through the course, a young man turned up, very good looking, Cambridge educated, rode for Cambridge, brought by a friend who said, My friend is not a Christian, but he's heard there's some very attractive young women on the course, and he's come to look around. Um and he's not gonna stay for the small group, but he's just gonna take a look round during the talk. So he introduced me to this guy called Matthew in the coffee break, and I introduced Matthew to one of the young women on the course, and he changed his mind. He decided he would stay for the small groups after all. And he finished the course and he encountered Jesus and he invited a lot of his friends on the next course, and he actually married my wife's younger sister, so he's now my brother. Matthew's now my brother-in-law. So um, but he brought his friends on the next world. He brought his sister on the next course, brought several of his friends. I had a group made up entirely of people outside the church. Uh, they all came to faith, they were all filled with the Holy Spirit on the weekend away, and they all went on to positions, pretty much all of them went on to positions of leadership in the church. And so that was that was the one pivotal moment when we realized it could be used for people outside the church. And that's when we changed it. And then it grew to about 300 people coming on each course. It never occurred to me that other churches didn't have a course for people outside the church that had 300 people coming. But I was being rung up by Baptist ministers and Catholic priests and Anglican ministers saying, Well, how do you do it? I spent all my time on the phone explaining how it worked. I thought, I can't do this. I'm gonna get them all together in one place and tell them. And uh, to our amazement, a thousand people turned up at this conference. So I we I told them all, and I thought that's it. I've told them now I won't have to answer any of these phone calls. But then they said, Well, could you come to Scotland? Could you come to Hong Kong? Could you come to Birmingham? Could you come to Africa? And then it started to spread around the world, and then it kind of went viral, really. You know, it didn't, it was it's now, I think, in every country in the world, because I was doing a conference one time in India, and the place where we were staying, someone came up and said, Oh, I've done Alpha. And they just introduced themselves. They weren't at the conference in India, they were just staying in the same place. And I said, Where did you do it? And they said, In the Faroe Islands. So I said, Where are the Faroe Islands? And they said, Well, they're owned by Denmark. So I said, Did you do it in Danish? No, we did it in Faroese. So I said, you know, other churches in the Faroe Islands running Alpha? Yeah, yeah, all the churches in the Faroe Islands run Alpha. And so when I got back to London, I said, Do we have any record of Alpha running in the Faroe Islands? No. Have we given permission for it be to be translated to Faroese? No. But it's just, you know, who cares? It it's just gone viral. And I suspect that meant when I realized we might have a record of 178 countries running it, but actually it's it's it's everywhere.
BrianStiller:When and how did you come to understand the work of the spirit in the drawing to Jesus? Was this a particular moment in you in your own life, or was it historic? Uh, how did that emerge?
NickyGumbel:I think with the experience of the Holy Spirit is absolutely key. You know, I mentioned earlier that we all need uh all human beings, in whatever age, whatever part of the world, are searching for those three things for love, for meaning, for purpose, and for belonging. And I guess of those, the most important is love. We need to know that we're loved. And the heart of the message of the gospel and the heart of the message of Alpha is you are loved. St. Paul wrote, the Son of God loved me and gave himself for me. If you, Brian, had been the only person in the world, Jesus would have died for you. That's how much you are loved. And everyone needs to know that message. And so that's the message we're proclaiming, but it's not enough to know it in your head. You need to experience God's love in your heart, and that's the work of the Holy Spirit. The love of God, that's God's love for us, as you know, as a Pentecostal, is poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. And so we learnt to pray this prayer, Come, Holy Spirit. In every service, we never go through a service at HDB without praying, Come, Holy Spirit. And on Alpha, we introduced, before my time, an a weekend on the Holy Spirit. Who is the Holy Spirit? What does he do? How can I be filled with the Holy Spirit? And then we pray, Come, Holy Spirit. And we give people an opportunity to be filled with the Holy Spirit, to experience the love of God. Sometimes people speak in tongues and we talk about uh, you know, that gift that Paul talks about and was experienced on the day of Pentecost. And when we on the question, and now I've read, I've done, I think I've done 105 alpha small groups now, or the one that we're starting on Tuesday will be my 105th Alpha Small Group. And and I've read thousands of questionnaires. And the questionnaire goes, Were you a Christian when you started the course? No. How would you describe yourself now? Christian. When and how did the change occur? On the Alpha weekend, when I experienced the Holy Spirit. And that's the moment of transformation. That's why the disciples were transformed on the day of Pentecost. They were filled with the Holy Spirit. And this is how lives are changed. And the thing is, if you if you've been filled with the Holy Spirit, it's not just, you haven't just assented to say, well, I am a, I guess if I, you know, if I if I was tortured, I'd have to confess I'm a Christian. It's it's like, this is amazing. I want to tell my friends. It's so good. And that's why I think people what why it's exploded, because people have this experience of God's love, and they want their sister to experience. They want their someone coming on Tuesday night who's 82 years old. The guests in our small we're we're gonna run it in our home because uh for 96 courses I I ran it at HDB, but I'm no longer the pastor there. Sometimes we run it at our local church, and sometimes we run it in our home. And this one we're gonna run in our home. So one of the guests coming on next Tuesday is 82 years of age. Her daughter came about 10 years ago. She was in our small group. She was then probably 35. Um, and then during lockdown, her husband came on the course and he came to faith. And now she's managed to persuade her 82-year-old mother to come. So, but it's because of what she experienced, she wanted her husband to experience it. Her husband came, he experienced it. Now she wants her mother to experience it. So it's it's it's friends telling friends. That's how it spreads.
BrianStiller:Nicky, I understand that early on you changed one of your early program or early talks to who is Jesus.
NickyGumbel:Yes. Well, uh when I took it on, it was in the it was a course, a discipleship course for people who had already encountered Jesus. So the first talk was, How can I be sure of my faith? Well, if you're not a Christian, that's not the first question you ask. How can I be sure of my faith? The first question you want to you ask probably. So actually the first talk is now, is there more to life than this? It used to be Christianity boring, irrelevant, or an untrue question mark. Now it's but it's much the same structure, but it's basically, is there more to life than this? And it's based around Jesus said, I and the way, the truth, and the life. And then the second talk is who is Jesus? Because that's the starting point. There is no other starting point, really, than Jesus. You know, people said, what I would never have come up with Alpha as an evangelistic course. That's the that's the it's the providence of God. Because it was because it was a course designed for people outside the church, it had things like a weekend on the Holy Spirit, designed for people already in the church, rather. It had things like a weekend on the Holy Spirit, an evening on healing, all these things in it, which we thought, which if I'd come up with an evangelistic course, it would be why does God allow suffering? What about other religions? Is there any evidence for you know the resurrection? All this kind of stuff. And we had that. We had that course in the church. It was called, I don't know, Agnostics Anonymous or something. And there was about 10 people on it. And then we had this course for people outside the church for uh called Alpha, where we were getting 300 people. So we realized you you can discuss, you know, why why does God allow suffering as a sort of pre as a sort of evangelistic thing. It doesn't get you anywhere, actually, because for some of the people it probably wasn't an issue. And for those it was, you haven't provided a satisfactory answer. So it doesn't get you anywhere. But all the talks on Alpha, if you get who Jesus is, that will change your life. If you understand that Jesus died for you, that will change your life. If you put your trust in him, the third talk is how can I have faith? That will change your life. If you start praying, that will change your life. If you start reading the Bible, that will change your life. If you experience the Holy Spirit, that will change. They're all they're all ones that take you take you on. But the whole inheriting a course that had talks about being filled with the Spirit, about speaking in tongues, you would never do that for for people outside the church. And yet, that was the thing. And of course, young people now are really searching for in all kinds of ways. You know, we live in this world that is so unstable. It's like kind of the world is shaking. You look what's happening in Poland. Putin flying drones over Poland. Europe is in this state of total instability. You look at what's happening in the Middle East, in Gaza, and then a bombing of Qatar. The Middle East is unstable. Look at the murder of Charlie Kirk. The US is in a state of instability. The world is in a state of instability. And young people are in a state of instability because of AI, for example. They don't know what kind of job they're going to have. Five years ago, you could have had a job, learn to do coding. Now they're going to be, there's no one's going to be needed to do coding because it'll all be done by AI. So the question is, will I have a job? Will I be able to buy a house? Young parents, parents are thinking, how am I going to bring my children up? How's it work? There's this total uncertainty. And so young people either either often going in a sort of into social media and suffering anxiety and depression and being very isolated, or they're saying, I don't want anything to do with social media. I don't even want to watch the news and they're escaping. Or they're saying, Oh, what am I going to try? I need enough money. You know, I I I look at Elon Musk and you think, oh, yes, we need 400 billion in order to survive. Or you look at, or you go down the health and fitness, you know, how can I live forever? How can I, you know, get down? They're all these way, or they go down a spiritual route. Can I try magic mushrooms or yoga or Buddhism or whatever? And and actually it's attractive to them to come and explore something that is supernatural. You know, the gift that being filled with the spirit, experiencing the gift of tongues, for example, healing, these are supernatural activities that are very you know, we they're going after the full supernatural, and we have the genuine supernatural. And if we can introduce them to us, not to a sort of decaffeinated Christianity or to use a different analogy, uh introduce them to full fat Christianity, if you like. The real thing, that's so attractive. And so I think that's one of the reasons people are coming, because they want something that's that's experiential. They don't want to just the knowledge is important, of course, the truth is important, but it's also important to experience it in your heart, and that's why the work of the spirit is so important. Very long answer.
BrianStiller:Whereas you've turned it on its head by introducing them first to Jesus, not to the apologetic question, but to Jesus, the apologist, who ultimately provides the answers.
NickyGumbel:Yeah. And by doing it that way. You can discuss in the small group. If it comes up in the small group, of course, and it very often does, you can discuss uh you and you hear from people what they have suffered, and you know, you can just you can talk about these issues, but cricket is very popular. And uh it used to be that that batsmen were very defensive, you know, they would just and play an occasional attacking shot. Now that's all changed, and most of the shots they play are attacking, but you still need an occasional defensive shot. So Alpha is is basically all attacking shots, with the occasional defensive shot in the small group where you're having to deal with what about suffering, what about other religions? I mean, they're big questions, you know. There are lots of challenges to faith, but but you know, if you hit the who is Jesus, why did he die? They're all they all take you forward. They're all run-scoring shots, if you like. They're not just defensive. Um, and no, apologetics is very important, very grateful. You you've got uh that lovely guy, uh uh Will Huff, isn't it, in in Canada, who's doing great stuff on apologetics. But uh I'm not saying it's not it's it's all that's all important, but but on Alpha, we're trying to introduce people to Jesus.
BrianStiller:Nicky, what what are the the basic misconceptions that people have about Jesus that you deal with in your alpha program?
NickyGumbel:People are so uninformed. You know, the generation and this is a disadvantage, but also a huge advantage. Uh young people, most of the young people now, their parents were atheists. So they are in in our generation, if you weren't Christian, it was likely that there was some Christianity in your family. Your mother was a churchgoer, or your aunt was a churchgoer, or your friends went to church. Now, they don't have any, their parents didn't go to church. Their parents, you know, their parents tend to be atheist, agnostic, at most nominal, you know, Christmas and Easter, but but they don't have the background, and therefore they don't know anything about Jesus. They've never really thought about who Jesus is. Um and so there's a range of you, you know, that that he never existed, or that I guess most people think he was a good, good religious teacher like all the others. But w what we find is when you do that, when you have the discussion about who is Jesus, that most people say things like, Oh, I don't think he was I don't think he was the son of God, I don't think But by the by the time they come back next week, it's not a question anymore. It's kind of settled in their mind that there is evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. It's kind of gone in because it's very early on in the course, they don't want to admit that they've and you don't want to push them. So it's just we we're never trying to win an argument in the small group. You are very happy to leave it at the end of the evening that they've all gone away saying we don't think Jesus is the Son of God, as long as they come back next week, because they'll hear the gospel. And what we find is that often these things don't, but after a bit, as the course goes on, even though they said the first week, you know, I don't believe Jesus is the Son of God, they kind of it's kind of sunk in that there's quite a lot of evidence, and there's evidence for the resurrection. And then they they they listen to the talk on the cross, and it's like, wow, that's that's amazing, the love of God. And then they to they think, oh yeah. It's sort of as they as you begin to reveal the the beauty, the treasures of the Christian faith, they're just very attractive about it. Yeah, the gospel is very good news. Uh and what we're trying to do on Alpha is present it in a good way, in a way that's you it that's not too confrontational, too not not attract is attractive to people, not just the message, but the way it's presented. It's presented in a very loving way, it's a very presented in a very caring way, a personal way, one-to-one, in a group, not not in it, not I mean, of course, wonderful things can happen in a crowd. And as you read the New Testament, Jesus preached to crowds, Paul spoke to crowds, all those kind of evangelists is great. But you also see in the in the New Testament the one-to-one, Jesus with the the woman at the well or the Philip in the Ethiopian. And it's much more like that. It's much more sort of personal, just encounter and friendship-based, so that the people you're talking to have become your friends because they've revealed their vulnerabilities when we're discussing things like have you ever had to ask forgiveness? People become very vulnerable. And and we think we'll impress people by our strength. Oh, I've got such knowledge of the Bible. The Hebrew says this, the Greek says this, but actually, you know, we connect with people through our vulnerabilities. And it's much better for the host to say, Well, I struggle with that too, actually. I have my doubts, you know. Then then you get connection, or I've been through suffering, you know, I've just had cancer. Um, you know, I don't understand why God allowed me to go through cancer, but I still believe in Jesus. It's real, it's kind of authentic. It's everyone's, we're not sort of setting ourselves up as the experts and them as the sort of pupils who come to learn from us. It's like we're all human beings and we're all on the journey, and we can learn from each other, but this is our experience, and uh, we found Jesus is does make a difference in our lives. And if you're interested, we can help you.
BrianStiller:Dor, the the the kind of the historical timing of the rise of alpha and your your influence. I mean, you're in in the UK, which to me is a member of the Commonwealth, is probably the most secular of all countries. Um you're at you're at a time when secularity as a kind of a ruling paradigm is dominant in the culture and church attendance has fallen off. And yet you come with up with a simple message message of who is Jesus, and allowing people to sit around a table for having a meal and talking to people, and you simply defy the odds. You see, you you come up against secularity in the most surprising way. Uh, as an initiative of the spirit, it just to me it's it's it's a stunning example of how God works in life. In moments and times we don't we think that the gospel is dead, the voice has been has gone silent.
NickyGumbel:Yeah, well, I think, I mean, certainly we're experiencing now in a new way, and this is a, as you know, quite a new thing. The last few months, the Bible Society has done this research and seen that there's a quiet revival happening in the UK. And I think there is a return. I mean, we're seeing it anecdotally in our churches. At HCB last Sunday, they they had real problems at at the 1130 service because this time of year it wouldn't normally be completely full. But not only was the church completely full, but all the overflow rooms were completely full. And they virtually had to close the building because they just couldn't get everybody in. And that is now becoming I hearing this not just in the UK, but uh in different parts of the world. Something is happening, and I think it's interesting. We have a we have a thing called the knowledge, which is it's my daughter gets. It's a kind of we have something called the week, which is a written digest of all the all the week's news. But you couldn't she what she gets is an email, which is again a synthesis of the news. And in this week's knowledge, it said, what people are feeling now in the UK is that there are three things that are sort of driving people. One is about the borders, about immigration, you know, in uh uh ill unlawful immigration, second is about free speech, and the third is a return to Christianity. And that is an extraordinary thing. Admittedly, it's third in those things, but it's it's still there. And I think it's people maybe looking at other religions and thinking, is that really what we want here? It's people looking at you know their parents, atheism, and thinking, is that really what we want? And so there's there's a there's a real marked change in the culture here. And it's it's it's so early that it's very hard to know. Uh but anecdotally, well, there's the research, there's the evidence of the of the the Bible society, but and anecdotally, it's certainly true that the churches are surprisingly people are coming. Um everyone you talk to is saying, well, we've got all these young families turning up. Because I think people are saying, how do we want to bring up our children now? Do we want them to be brought up with no faith or with one of the new faiths that are coming to the country? And I think people increasingly are saying, actually, let's have another look at Christianity.
BrianStiller:Nicky, I'm interested in how you're handling all of this. I mean, here you are, a a young Anglican vicar in London with a with a propensity to telling others about Jesus, but all of a sudden, what you have led, what your name is synonymous with, is a revolution in public witness of the gospel. It's is it's uh it's it's akin to Billy Graham. So what does this do to Nicky Gumbel as your your self-identity, your own life? Uh how has this changed you?
NickyGumbel:Well, I think the the thing about alpha is it's alpha. It's it's not it's not you know our old my old vicar was Sandy Miller, but we never had Sandy Miller ministries. We had HTB, and this is alpha. It's not that there are hundreds of I I didn't come up with the idea of alpha. It was uh Charles Marnum and then John Irving and then Nicky Lee. I inherited it. So to me, what one time I did a conference in, we did some conferences in America, and we did two conferences, and then we had our summer holiday with our children, and then we did two more conferences. And for the summer holiday with our children, uh some very kind Americans lent us their house, and they said, in the garage is a sports car, and in that that sports car, because of its age, it needs to be driven every day. Otherwise, when we come back, it's not gonna work. So please will you drive it? So I drove this sports car. It's the only time I've ever driven a sports car, and it was amazing to drive this sports car, but I never thought it was my own. You know, it's not I don't and an alpha, you know, I inherited it. I well, we've had a lot of fun with it. It's a great joy to drive it, but now there's someone in China, you know, there's nothing to do with me. The youth alpha, I'm not in the youth alpha, that's going viral, the youth alpha. I won't be in all these other ones, the the Arabic Alpha or the, and and even the part that I'm playing in the in the new film series, which we just started doing yesterday, we started refilming. I will do a smaller and smaller amount. Uh my son Johnny asked me right at the beginning. This would have been about 19. We did the first the first film series in 1994, and then we did another one in 1998. And about in 1998, when he would have been about 16, he said to me, Dad, will you always be the one who does who's doing the videos? And of course, it was a very I mean he knew exactly what he was asking. He was pointing out to me that if Alpha was going to survive, it wouldn't always be me. I was just doing it temporarily, and that's what it is. I've been I it's been a massive privilege to be involved, but it doesn't belong to me. It's other people who get who are increasingly leading it. Around the world, there are hundreds of thousands of people already involved in leading the courses. And I'm privileged to have a part to play in it, but I've never thought it's any more than a bit part.
BrianStiller:What's what has surprised you most in this journey of creating and evolving and presenting alpha?
NickyGumbel:I think I've been surprised by I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the fact that it seems to work everywhere. Yeah, I I I sort of almost hoped there'd be a part of the world it didn't work in that we wouldn't have to worry about. But yeah, but and it seems to work for different reasons in different parts of the world. But uh you know, I wasn't I guess I wasn't so surprised it worked in in Canada because as you know, Canada's not so dissimilar from from England. Um but to find it worked in Japan or in Korea or in China or in India or in Africa or Latin America or it's just it just amazed me. But that then I suppose thinking about it, the gospel is the same. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the gospel message is relevant to everybody. Everybody's looking for love, everyone's looking for meaning, everyone's looking to belong. And right now, social media is it's global, but it's leading to loneliness, and people are actually longing to meet together. And one of the things is people come together, you know, they actually meet face to face in an alpha small way. You can do it online, of course. We did it online during COVID, uh, and it works. The Holy Spirit, you know, we prayed. I we didn't know whether the Holy Spirit would come if we prayed, come Holy Spirit on Zoom. But apparently the Holy Spirit is not is not confused by Zoom. It it he you know, it still worked, but we were all so glad to get back to running it in person, where there's that, so everybody's looking for that community. But this is these are it's the same thing everywhere. And you know, I I was surprised, again, you asked me what surprised that it worked in the prisons. How could this course in that comes from a sort of middle of central London work in in the prisons? But is really taken off in the prisons. In fact, I very early on I read an article, I think it was the Bermuda Sun, where they were talking about Alpha running in the prisons in Bermuda, and it said this course doesn't only run in the prisons, it also runs in other places. But you know, 80,000 people a year are doing it in prison in different parts of the world. Um, and um that's that amazed me. And yet it's also run in parliament, it's run in the White House, it's run in at um at Harvard, it's run as you know, it runs it in all these different places that you you can sort of hardly believe it's it it it can reach Harvard students and people in prison at the same time.
BrianStiller:Nicky, as you look at your own life and as we talk, some younger person is listening to you and thinking about the impact of of of your life through personal ministry and alpha worldwide, and they're wondering what do I do? Where do I go? What do I listen for? What counsel would you give to a younger Nicky Gumbel?
NickyGumbel:I think the greatest title that you can have is servant of the Lord. I think that is all we can all do is say, Lord, what do you want me to do? I'm here for you. I'll do whatever you want me to do. I'm your servant. You're you're the boss. It's all about you, Jesus. We we're not here for ourselves, we're here to serve you. What do you want me to do? And then start by serving the people around you. You know, if you're married, serve your wife. If you've got children, serve your children. If you've got parents, serve your parents. If you've got friends, serve your friends. Just see if there's anything you can do to help anybody, to serve. And of course, the greatest act of service is to introduce someone to Jesus if they don't know Jesus. That you can't do anything kinder, more loving, than I'm so grateful for the people who helped me encounter Jesus. That's the most loving thing that you can do. The great the greatest injustice in the world, there's so many injustices in the world, and you know, we must fight all injustices. But the greatest injustice in the world is to go through your whole life and never to have heard about Jesus. And the greatest act of love is to tell someone about Jesus. So you here I am, Lord, I want to serve you, I want to love people. How can I how can I love people? How can I serve them? Well, that may be feed the hungry, maybe visit those in prison, maybe you know, look after your elderly mother. It's I don't know, it's it's whatever Jesus calls you to do. And you the the big heroes are not going to be the people who are known, they'll be the people who've quietly got on and just served Jesus in a very, you know, unpretentious way in in their own homes, in their families, with their friends. And of course, many people, it you we're so blessed to live in parts of the world where, yes, of course, you're persecuted in the sense that people say horrible things about you, but we're not persecuted in the sense that we're locked up, um, not in England anyway yet, you know, or executed. Some parts of the world you might well be executed if you come if you come to faith in Jesus. So I think we're very blessed to live where we are, but wherever we are, we have to just say, Lord, here I am, whatever you want me to do.
BrianStiller:Nicky Gumbel, thank you so much for joining us on Evangelical 360.
NickyGumbel:It's great to be with you, Brian. God bless.
BrianStiller:Thanks, Nicky, for joining me today. Your global work has been transformative. You've introduced countless thousands to a living, a life rooted in Christ. Hearing your story of how this happened and what it means today has been so informative and challenging. So, my thanks to you for being a part of the podcast. Be sure to share this episode and join the conversation on YouTube. If you'd like to learn more about today's guest, be sure to check the show notes for links and info. And if you haven't already received my free book and newsletter, just go to BrianSoto.com. Thanks again. Until next time.