evangelical 360°
A timely and relevant new podcast that dives into the contemporary issues which are impacting Christian life and witness around the world. Guests include leaders, writers, and influencers, all exploring faith from different perspectives and persuasions. Inviting lively discussion and asking tough questions, evangelical 360° is hosted by Brian Stiller, Global Ambassador for the World Evangelical Alliance. Our hope is that each person listening will come away informed, encouraged, challenged and inspired!
evangelical 360°
Ep. 56 / Stewardship, Legacy and the Joy of Generosity with Tim Jenkins
What if the richest thing you leave your family isn’t money at all? In this episode we sit down with investment advisor, Tim Jenkins, who helps us reframe wealth through the lens of stewardship, generosity and multi‑generational wisdom. Instead of asking how to get a little more, we ask how much is enough? What values do we want to pass on? And why might giving now be the most strategic move for the next generation.
In this conversation Tim Jenkins breaks down the cultural lies that fuel money stress—ownership thinking, the myth that more simplifies life, and the narrow focus on dollars alone. He introduces five currencies of wealth—financial, spiritual, relational, emotional, and intellectual—and shows how legacies crumble when only one currency is transferred. We unpack the sobering 90/10 rule showing why most fortunes don’t reach the fourth generation. Then we map a path to reverse it by teaching principles, involving heirs in giving decisions, and documenting the family playbook.
Whether you lead a family enterprise or steward a modest estate, the same truths apply: money reveals the heart, and planning with purpose can turn anxiety into peace. If you'd like to learn more with Tim Jenkins you can reach out to Trinity Family Wealth Advisors and find him through social media.
And please don't forget to share this episode and join the conversation on YouTube!
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Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360. I'm your host, Brian Stiller. Nothing seems to catch voters' attention like the economy. Governments rise and fall on how their people view their handling of money. Countries batter each other in trying to extract as much as they can from others, all in the unending search for a better tax break for their own citizens. As an advisor to a former U.S. president said, it's the economy stupid. As much as we protest, the relationships matter most. Sometimes the need to earn money takes over. Our culture breeds the notion that earning a lot of money or getting the best deal I can find shows how smart I am. Getting things in life becomes the unspoken mantra of our society. If I were judged on a spectrum of getters and givers from one to ten, with the best givers being numbered ten, I wonder where I'd put myself and where might my friends place me. Yet in life, nothing begins unless something's given away. Something doesn't come out of nothing. The giving of life begets life. You and I began that way. My mom and dad each gave up their life to create this one many years ago. That golden crop of grain you see didn't grow up as market ready without the farmer having seed grain in store and then planting it at the right time. Had it stayed in storage with a let's keep this for ourselves sign, it would have stayed as is. But when given away or seeded, it multiplies. Here's my point. Giving is as close to the regeneration and remaking of a people as I can imagine. It's defining, it's renewing, it refills life. Without it, we die. Tim Jenkins helping people rediscover this essence of giving. As an investment advisor, he finds that as he helps his clients give money away, that very process brings life and renewed vigor to those who, in their generosity, discover this essential component of living. So thanks for joining me today. Please consider sharing this episode with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, please hit the subscribe button. And you can also join the conversation on YouTube in the comments below. Now to my guest, Tim Jenkins.
Tim Jenkins:You're welcome. A regular listener. It's a joy to be here.
Brian Stiller:Oh, thanks, Tim. Tim, we are living at a time when there is an enormous transfer of funds from one generation to another. As I understand, there's more money being transferred than ever in the world's history. So you've got this movement of money. There are some who have a lot of money to transfer, some that have modest amounts, and some that don't have a lot. But money concerns us all. As a as someone who consults on giving and money management, what are the mistakes that most of us make when it comes to our money management?
Tim Jenkins:Great question, Brian. I think the first thing is we get confused as to who the owner is. We think because we earned it or it grew or however we received it, that it's ours. It's not ours. We're simply a steward. We're going to be a manager. And for us to think that I get to make all the decisions, and that's where the decisions stop, is wrong. And as a result, that really creates a challenge in our thinking and allows us or keeps us from making good decisions. So what are those bad decisions? So one thing would be, as I said, we don't ask the owner what their uh wishes are or intent is. Another thing would be to simply look at a lot of the lies about money that our culture tells us. Um, and and maybe even our faith background is uh suggesting to us. So some of those lies that we all live with are things like just a little bit more is all I need, and life will be so much better. Uh, we work uh with clients that have been blessed with a lot of finances. And uh our business could not would not exist if life got easier the more money we had. We see more complexity the more we have. We see more uh time that is required to manage that resource, uh, more energy, more focus, more um, it's easier often to focus on our assets and our wealth, uh financial wealth, than it would be to go home now because we've got family at home or uh those types of things. Money makes um having more adds complexity to our life. The other thing that most people don't know is not only does it add complexity, it adds a different level of, I'm gonna call it stress. Maybe stress is the wrong word, but it brings a level of danger that families that don't have significant wealth don't have. And um, we need to be aware of that and we need to work with our children so that we can avoid that danger uh and some of those things that happen. So one of the lies is uh a little bit more is all we need. Another lie is it's it's my money, uh, and I can do whatever I want with it. Or we may paraphrase that a little bit. We may put the quote uh Sunday school label on that and say, well, 90% is or whatever percent you want to say is our money. Uh we just need to set this aside and then we can do whatever we want with the rest. I don't think that's a biblical principle either. Another lie that would come to our mind is the fact that we focus on one currency. I believe there's multiple currencies. So when we talk about wealth today, Brian, uh naturally people will think money. They will think finance. I think our wealth is based on finance for sure. But is there such a thing as spiritual wealth? I believe there is. What about relational wealth, the the wealth within our family, the wealth within our friend group, the wealth within our peers at work or wherever our network is? What about our intellectual wealth? Understanding how things work, if you're in business or if you're in a different profession, uh, or just understanding how life works. Um, those are all forms of wealth. What about emotional wealth? Uh, that's really important. And we've seen that in the last decade, even more important. So as we look at wealth, we shouldn't be looking at it and just thinking about money. In fact, when we talk with uh our clients and with parents especially, we talk about um what is the greatest asset that you want to transfer? Um, the question would be: if you could only transfer one form of wealth between financial, spiritual, relational, emotional, and intellectual, you've got to bankrupt four of those. You can pass one, what would you pass? I find that question really a powerful question because it it cuts out the noise. And as a parent, you get to see what's the most important thing to me. Now, the second question we will ask is we'll say the same thing. If you could pass four now of those, uh spiritual, financial, relational, emotional, and intellectual, you can pass four of them, but you got to bankrupt one. What's the one you will bankrupt? That helps parents really crystallize what's so important. But here's the problem, Brian. As they talk to their financial advisor or whoever else is in their life that's helping them with finance, how often do we talk about the other currencies? We don't. That's those other things typically. It would be rare. I can't think of a situation where honestly someone has said money's the most important. There are people that would say that, and that's their choice. But for most parents that I talk to, it's something else. Therefore, when we talk about wealth transfer, we want to deal with money. But there's other assets way more valuable. We got to think about that. We got to think about who's the next steward of those resources and what do they need to know? What don't they know already? And how do we fill in the gaps? We've been, we've been decades learning these skill sets, uh, and we need to pass those on. Um, successful families pass that on proactively, but most people don't even think about it. And so we've spent decades building financial wealth, but building all these other forms of wealth, and likely we go to our grave without having passed that on to the next generation, certainly not to the third generation, because we don't have the interaction that they didn't grow up in our home. So um, those are some really important factors, Brian, that um are skewed because our culture is not talking about this. Um, and yet God's word is just filled with wisdom and direction, very plain instructions, 2,350 verses in God's word talk about money or possessions. God's not wanting us to be unaware of this, he's not wanting us to not live life well when it comes to our wealth. Um, but we don't tend to go there as often as we should or to seek his guidance.
Brian Stiller:You help people bridge from today the resources that I have into life after death. I I assume that in my experience, people don't want to talk about life after death. So they have these resources now, and you've mentioned those five resources. How do you get people to engage in the conversation where they really understand that at some point that lid's gonna drop and life is gonna be over, and what they have is no longer gonna be theirs, it will be somebody else's, yeah. How do you get to them into that conversation?
Tim Jenkins:Yeah, so so there's there's a obviously a varying level of reluctance for this conversation, but I don't think anybody wants it. Um it's part of our process, so they got they they need to have it anyway. This is what we're talking about today. Yeah, but but we talk about it because it is so critical. And I think a number of things. So um, one thing is we think that uh if we don't talk about it, people don't know what we're worth. And so we we want to keep our cards to our chest. Why is that? I I think it's a power thing for a lot of people, Brian. Um, where it's we built it, it's ours, um, I'm not gonna divulge that. Um, so it could be a power thing, but not always. It could be a protection thing because I want to protect that relationship with that child. If they knew I was really worth what I am, maybe they'd be saying, Mom, dad, they they, you know, um, instead of us looking at that child and saying, even if they're an adult child, where is there a challenge? How are they not using wealth wisely? And is there a way that we can still interact with them to help coach them in that area? There may or may not be because of kind of family history, we all have baggage, all that type of thing. But if if those children are younger, certainly, you know, before high school and teens, that's a great time to be really showing them and helping them learn the money management skills. So there is that reluctance that if people knew I had this, maybe they might be, you know, having different conversations with us. I like to frame it from an opportunity standpoint. And I uh I like to have people look at it from a legacy standpoint. What I mean by that is we I referenced that earlier in terms of what does that next generation need? Here's an interesting rule we talked about, Brian. It's called the 9010 rule. It applies to high net worth families, but I would say it actually applies to every family. It's just more obvious, maybe, in a high net worth family, or maybe there's more assets that get wasted as a result of this. But here's here's the rule. History has shown us 90% of a high net worth family's wealth will never make it. Now I talk about financial wealth, will never make it to the fourth generation. So if we've got a matriarch and patriarch right now, then let's just say they're worth a few million dollars. That's significant. Um, their great-grandchildren will likely see none of that money at most 10%. And they're looking at it going, it's millions of dollars. It's in real estate, it's in a good business, it's in investments. Where is it gonna go? Where it's gonna go, it's gonna go shopping. Here's how this works. And as soon as I explain this, you'll go, makes total sense. Um, first generation, they make the money. Um, now often what I see is there's a special blessing on a number of people that for some reason God has just allowed them to prosper financially. Um and and they have. The second generation, well, they grew up in that home. So even if there's not a lot of uh teaching about money management principles, over at the dinner table, they hear about what went on at work and what they're doing here. And so by osmosis, they pick up some of that. They certainly see their parents' lifestyle being less than they they they live on less than they earn. They they know there's investments being made, they know there's surplus. So that's happening. They pick that up, and that generation typically will manage the wealth, and they've got enough skill set to do that. The third generation, though, here's the problem they don't have much interaction with grandpa and grandma too often, maybe geographically dispersed, uh, relationally dispersed, just because they're a generation apart, didn't grow up in that home and see what it took to create that wealth. Um, so when the wealth moves down the spectrum, they didn't know the sacrifice that their grandparents made. And there's a high probability that the uh the principles that were used, biblical or just good common sense money management principles, have never been passed. The first generation is too busy, focused on other things. Um, so that third generation acquires a lot of inheritance without any skill set. They just think it's Christmas every day, and we can do whatever we want with this. And as a result, it's gone. The thing that really breaks my heart is it's not the money. Money, money can be replaced. It's a renewable resource. It's it's all the life lessons, all the spiritual lessons, um, that and and the money management lessons that can be passed on. Give them the ability. Let's launch those next generations uh at the next step. We all want to do that. We want our kids to be launching at a better place than we were, and yet we're not giving them the fundamentals to do that. So that's really what uh what we're seeing happen with uh with a family dynamic. And so when I talk to them, I want to talk about here's the potential you have. If you do nothing, all this is gonna disappear. You won't be remembered, probably, and neither will your wealth, and neither will your influence or your impact. However, if you're proactive, if you understand the opportunity that sits in front of you, and I would even say the obligation, we're a steward of those resources, but we're only thinking about it on a financial standpoint. Let's think about it relationally, emotionally, intellectually, all those things. We want to pass that on. If we equip that, those next stewards to do two things. One, to understand those principles, two, to receive some financial resources, but all those other currencies as well. What an impact. What a life they're gonna have. But I also want to pass on the responsibility to say you're blessed. We've been blessed to live in this part of the world. We've been blessed in all these ways. We've been blessed to understand these principles and pass them on to you. Now your responsibility is to manage it well, um, interact with the true owner of the resources so that you can manage them through life, but then your responsibility is to pass all that to the next generation. Just do it to the next generation.
Brian Stiller:Let's go to the example of a person with a considerable wealth. They have generated that that those assets through their through their business, through their investments, however. As they look into the future, uh, what are you finding they think about, or are they thinking about how their money will long term be used uh in ways that they would uh find congruent with their own values and vision? Or do people just think about let's make sure that during my lifetime our investment is maintained and it's it's secured?
Tim Jenkins:Yeah, good question. So I again I find a mix. Um there's some clients that um very focused on um we are the steward, we have way more than we need, we want to give that away, and they come to us and they go, we hear you can help us be more generous. And we love to hear that. Uh, we want we we love to do the work to give them permission to be as generous as their heart says they want to be. And I believe that comes from God.
Brian Stiller:But let me ask, yeah, to what degree is generosity a factor in a high net worth person?
Tim Jenkins:Well, again, there's a very a variation there, but I I find from a if there's not a faith component, it will likely be very low in that family. Um, if there is a faith component, um, it it could be high, but not necessarily. And for a couple of reasons. One would be um usually we don't think long term. And when I say that, we don't think beyond um our uh the generation that we can see. So we can see our kids, we can see our grandkids, if we see our great grandkids this for a year, maybe that's it. So we never think beyond that. We just we just and and so, but but for significant wealth, if it's managed well, it can last for decades. Um, we we have clients that will give away tens of millions of dollars. That um when I look at that, I look at the the impact of that, um, that will change a world problem. For some reason, God's blessed them with the resources in their hands. And I bet you the passion is there that when they uncover it, they'll go, that's one of the reasons God's blessed us with these resources. We want to do that. Or it could be a regional problem where they go, in our region, we want to change the face of this issue. And they can do that. That's powerful. Um, and so as they catch that vision or they get permission to be able to give, then they're able to do incredible things and that and their generosity will change. Here's here's an interesting experience that I find. Um, we have the luxury of working with a lot of generous people. I have never seen anyone voluntarily go backwards on the generosity scale. I've never seen anybody give less this year than they gave last year if they have the choice. And most of them have the choice. And why do you think that is? Because of the joy of generosity. They get they get to see what they're doing, they get to see the involvement of their Heavenly Father, they get to see the impact. Um, and they just go, this is awesome. And they're they're not doing it to get um necessarily, you know, if I give, God will give me more back. But I also hear a comment, not infrequently, okay, last year we gave away more money than we've ever given away. And this year we have more money than we've ever had before.
Brian Stiller:And and so I'm I don't want to link that, Brian, right? That they are they're that's not the but but but it seems to me there's a biblical principle there that uh as you give more to use the old King James version, more will be put back from what you've given.
Tim Jenkins:Yeah, and given and it shall be given. Yeah, certainly there can be a correlation, but I also look at it and say the currencies could be different. So I may give away financial resources, I may give back emotional resources or relational resources, right? Um, God's uh an abundant God and He promises to bless us. He's all knowing and in all knowingness and in lovingness, He does exactly the perfect thing for us. He knows what we need. We kind of think, oh, hey, if I just had a little bit more money, or if if this challenge in our life was was dissipated, we would be better off. He's got purposes for that. Um, and and we we can trust him in it.
Brian Stiller:How can a family make a difference for a ministry or a cause that concerns them?
Tim Jenkins:I say that people, there's four questions that everyone needs to answer. The first question is, how much is enough? What's our finish line? Given that we feel this is appropriate lifestyle for the rest of our life, um, and this is where we're at in terms of age and other obligations we have. What's our nest egg need to be? What's that number? Unfortunately, there's hardly anybody walking around knowing that number that hasn't had an advisor do that for them. And most advisors are more concerned about the investment than that clarity. But you have to answer that question. Once we answer, okay, this is what we need for our nest egg, we know that either we're already beyond it, or if we aren't, then how do we get there? That looks after our needs. The next question we want to answer, and typically this is a little harder, is how much is enough for our kids? Because usually what we say is, oh, well, here's here's here's another interesting thing. Every will, I've seen a lot, our team, I've seen a lot of wills. It's unusual to see a will that doesn't say this. Total net worth, divide by the number of kids, there's our will. So for an average Canadian, possibly, or North American, um, possibly that works. You know, you take a couple of million dollars, divide by three or four kids, nobody's probably gonna get hurt. Take 30, 40, 50 million, divide by two or three kids. And we can kind of say, wait a minute, that's a big number that's going to somebody that doesn't need all that and probably isn't going to use it well. And all of a sudden, what we thought was gonna be a blessing becomes a curse.
Brian Stiller:Um and so you're saying that for a person to give too much to their kid, to their child could be a curse.
Tim Jenkins:For sure. And here's why. What does it do? Well, uh, it's it's not a it's I'm not making a disparaging comment on the child. No, I'm simply saying they're put in an environment where there's danger put on them that's excessive. And what would it normally do? We would rob them of a work ethic. Why do I need to work? I just have all this money. Well, we we know from God's principles he's designed us to work. It's not healthy for us not to work. What does that do to my um my self-esteem? Um, all of a sudden, I didn't create this wealth, I didn't create this lifestyle. What does that do to me? Um, so there's a number of things that just inadvertently happen in that situation. And we don't think about it because nobody ever does the math. They sit down with a lawyer, they do their will, and that's typically the kids get everything. We have to be really careful. The question we want to ask is whoever's receiving that inheritance, what's what's it, what's the best for them? At what level? And it's easy to answer that. We've got a process to do that. But question one, how much is enough for us? Question two, how much is enough for our kids? Yeah, we want to bless them. Enough to bless them, but not enough to become a Kirk. Third question is what's our tax liability? Now you mentioned earlier how to get people involved in giving. This is a good one because when they look at their tax liability, they have no idea. We talked earlier about a multi-million dollar uh couple. Um, there's millions going to go to uh to CRA or the IRS or whatever the tax uh entity in their country is. This is gonna go there. They don't know that number. When they hit when they see that number, it floors them. And their next question is is there anything we can do about it? Oh, yeah, especially in Canada. We can be generous, and so we can increase our generosity in a massive way. And a lot of that generosity is coming from CRA going to our favorite charities. But we have to do that before we pass. A will can't do that that after the fact, it can do it before, and we need to do the planning. So the third question is what's my tax liability? And typically, what we find, even with what we would say would be an average Canadian, we've got enough to cover our needs, we've got enough to cover our kids' needs appropriately, uh, we've got a big tax liability, and now we've got the choice to say there's still some capital left over. What are we going to do with that capital? One way is to be generous with it that reduces our tax and it also alleviates the challenges of us or our kids having too much, like even for ourselves, right? We can think that if we had more money, we may not use it as well as if we had been a little bit more modest with what we have. So those are the four questions, Brian, and people need to answer those. And when they do, generosity tends to really buckle.
Brian Stiller:Tell us the story of that one couple who found that in giving, they brought their friends into it as well.
Tim Jenkins:So there was a couple, and they uh they were already a generous couple. Um, I can't speak to this, but in terms of where they got the idea. But there was another family that had made a significant um multimillion dollar donation to um their favorite cause. That ministry was changed fundamentally because of that gift. Now, what we're seeing is other families are going, oh, that was really powerful. That was a huge impact in that ministry. We're now at a place where we could do something similar. And so, as current example, father passed away, um, wanted to be generous in their estate, gave a million dollars to this institution uh or this ministry. And what they've also done, though, is they connected that ministry to their network. So, what they've done is they've said, we um we are to their network, we are being generous. Here's what we're doing, and here's why we're making this gift. Um, we'd simply like you to learn more about this ministry. Um, and so we're just you know connecting you with the ministry. Um, that is going to be really powerful because there will be a knock-on effect, whether it's for that ministry or another one. Um, people will look at that and go, yeah, this is why, well, not why there's a number of benefits from this. And we're in a position where we could make that kind of impact. And we in this particular family's case, the children are involved. They're very aware of this. They're they're very behind this, they're part of that connection group. Um, and so the opportunity for us to um just set an example and and and probably more give people the idea. Well, you know, we're we're we're busy with life and we don't even know about some of these things. And and the fact that we've got this massive tax liability, all of a sudden it's like we can reduce our tax, we can give to our favorite charities, we can impact our kids, we can involve our grandkids, they can understand why we're doing why we're what we're doing and why it makes total sense. Now we're passing currencies. Now we're making a big difference, now we're changing our legacy.
Brian Stiller:So a person with uh their own capital resources looks at an agency or a ministry or a cause that is dear to them, and by them giving money to that and bringing their friends uh into the picture may use called the the knock on effect. It it it triggers a next wave of activity. So that That that cause or that ministry is affected by that initial gift that triggers other gifts. But it begins with somebody understanding that their resources are not just for them or their family, but can go beyond to what has has mattered to them in life.
Tim Jenkins:Yeah, totally. Let me talk about why an estate plan is absolutely powerful for a couple, but as well as their whole um thought process around generosity. Prior to looking at an estate plan, and an estate plan is simply just saying someday I'm not going to be here. But I get the choice to choose where these resources go next. And um, so we want to do that. But here's when it becomes really powerful. Up to that point, our giving, if we have giving, is going to be based typically on income. I make so much income into the home, therefore, we're choosing to give a certain amount and we choose where to give it. That's all we think about. We can have a massive net worth, or certainly our net worth is probably still rising, but all we look at is the cash flow, the income that comes in and give from that. As soon as we've asked those four questions that I mentioned earlier, and we know that we have more than we need, and we know we've got a big tax liability, and then we look at it and say, well, what would we do with that? The estate plan says, hey, we've already passed our other objectives, our other goals, and we have all this net worth here. Let's start giving some of that net worth now. Why have a lawyer in 20 years give away a lot of money? Let's get involved today. Let's make those stewardship decisions. If we can, let's involve our kids and our grandkids. There's some great ideas about how to do that and help them catch the joy of generosity. Whether our kids or grandkids give their money away or our money away, they still catch the joy of generosity. It's interesting. But um, what we want to look at is now we can give from our net worth, from our income. It's we we're giving from our net worth. A lot of things are happening. One, we can increase our giving substantially. Two, it's probably going to be given away anyway. We just get, we just get to be involved in it. We get to uh experience the joy from that. We get to see what our dollars have done. We're reducing our tax liability in this current year. That frees up more capital to do something with. It's reducing our tax liability at the end of death. There's so many good things happen. So, you know, if if if I'm talking to somebody that is in a position that there is wealth, that I say, get an estate plan done, and roll that through in terms of what that looks like for generosity, that will that's the potential to change your family uh history for generations.
Brian Stiller:Uh Tim, because of this large amount of transfer of wealth, obviously you've got uh businesses, family, enterprises, uh often interwebbed by family. And that itself creates complexity. So uh in your financial planning, are you finding this to be true? Oh, for sure.
Tim Jenkins:It is so complex, uh Brian. And um, and um it's not easy to to resolve these things. We we actually um have a connection to a family counselor so that if as we're going through these family dynamics and looking at the math part, we have to look at the relational part too, I believe, because we want to look at all those currencies. So it may not be easy, but if there's the opportunity for us to then talk to the other currencies to say, you know what, we're prepared to roll up our sleeves here. This is so important to us. And now that we're older, we have a little time margin, a little energy margin. We're not pushing the business like we were. We want to transition the business really well so it'll be successful for the next generation. But the family members that may not be involved in the business, or even if they are, we need to do this from a really good place relationally. So let's bring in the family council. Let's talk about that. But what we do is we integrate it um with the financial as well. Here's some of the financial plans. Um, what are the relational impacts of that? How do we work that out? So it's all integrated. To me, one of the things that that uh earlier I talked about um was you know, we we don't see um the money as uh we see it as ours, not as our Heavenly Fathers. Uh, but there's also that um that view that there's a sacred and secular use of money. And that's not the case. God's blessed us with these resources, financial or otherwise. Um, and it's not sacred or secular. It's just we just use it the way He wants us to. And so when it comes to family business succession or transitioning wealth, we need to be aware of those other things. And we I just uh would really encourage people to get help in that area. When families don't get help, what happens? You're you're putting you're putting money, you're putting people, you're putting a lot of emotion, uh, and I'm saying a lot of money, a lot of people, a lot of emotional, a lot of different perspectives together. Uh yeah. Uh we just say that's dynamite. Like light the fuse. We're getting out of here. Um, because it's gonna blow and and it's gonna be it's it's ends up in the courts. We yeah, you see it all the time, right? We don't have to look far to find those stories. We don't want and huge amount of money lost. Just it's just it's just gone. Lawyers love it. So, so the other way is what? Oh, the other way would be to say, to recognize, okay, you know what? We we are a steward. The owner has blessed us, he's blessed us with so many ways. He wants to continue to bless us, he wants to bless us in multiple currencies. We may be only focusing on one or two. We want everything he has for us. So let's get professional counsel. Let's just say, Father, this we we recognize these are your resources. We don't know how much time we have left. We may have decades, we may have uh a few months, but we need to get our house in order. And we need to get godly counsel around this, mostly from him, in terms of what do we do here? But answer those four questions, put an estate plan in place, um, and then start to execute. And I would say focus as much as possible on the relational side, on your children, your grandchildren, transferring your values. That has way more potential and way more value. If we pass that on to them and our success principles, uh, they've got so much more. Money is a renewable resource. Whether they can do anything with that or not, that's that's way less valuable in my mind than those other principles. That's where we should be focusing.
Brian Stiller:Tim, 20 years ago, you sat down with Lily and I, and you helped us think about these matters. Now, I've lived on ministry salary all my life, so it's modest, but we saved, we lived modestly. Uh, we had a little real estate, uh, so we had some money, we had grandchildren that have particular needs, uh, we have our own future, and you helped us map out what might what the future might be. Enormous value. But one of the things that has has has accompanied that and is something that I've been interested in a long time, and that's this issue of generosity. And I I've come to this simple understanding of creation that at the heart of God is generosity in his actions. And creation is a manifestation of that generosity because we know that nothing happens in life until something's given away. Generosity is at the very key of reproduction family. Uh a building that we're in. You had to invest capital and resources to make it. So I've I've come to understand in my own life and in our own our own family, in our own giving, the the absolute joy of seeing another person or another group uh benefit from the few resources that we have. And so your idea of generosity, I think, is is a is a critical matter to a person's own spiritual well-being, let alone fulfilling the creation call.
Tim Jenkins:Yeah, and this kind of wraps back around the unseen benefits of generosity. Uh, you know, we live in a culture that is all about more, more, more. It's all about a newer car, uh, you know, a new toy, uh, something new in the house or whatever it is. Uh, and by following God's principles and saying, you know what, we're gonna trust him. We're gonna we're gonna give our first fruits to him. Um, what it also does is it tempers some of those other things. And so we're actually crushing the back of materialism by being generous. And so all these things are intertwined and they compound. It's really interesting when you actually look at some of the other benefits of generosity, but certainly it speaks to the whole knit holistic nature of who our heavenly father is and what he wants for us. And it reflects his heart, as you say, his generosity, his gifts first. He's done everything, including the grace for us to even begin to understand who he is and know him. One other thing with that, Brian, we've talked a little bit about, you know, that multimillion dollar family. Um, but um, but when I look at the average person in uh kind of a metropolitan North America, you know, they've they've got a home probably worth over a million, maybe quite a bit over a million, not like they paid a lot for it. They've saved for retirement, so they've got some kind of nest egg, hundreds of thousands of dollars probably, um, may have some pensions, may have a cottage or something else, you know, for the average person to have an estate that now they look at, they go, you know, it's it's a few million dollars. Who are we? We're just average people. So when we apply the things that we've talked about today, um, there's still excess money. So it applies to them as well? Everyone. It will astound people how generous they can be with their family and with their favorite ministries, cut the tax man out of the issue, and still live in a really wonderful way. We're not pinch and pennies here. This is the average Canadian can make a substantial gift that will make a substantial difference in ministries. It's massive.
Brian Stiller:Tim, you've been advising people on finance, personal finance, corporate finance giving for some years. What for you has been the uh the motivation and the joy of that?
Tim Jenkins:So we're I'm called to do what I do, and God has blessed us with a team to be able to work in complex settings. But I clearly remember um it was in the mountains in Georgia. I was at a retreat, and I'm I'm there and I'm there to listen to God. And and it was quite a while ago, and I'm trying to figure out is that God's voice or is that mine or what? But it was clear. I've got this in my journal, and and it's never left me. He says, I'm clearly calling you to serve an unreached people group. Well, I've heard that term before. Yeah, but what he meant was affluent families that have money and all the danger of money, and they've got these resources. I'm calling you to serve them, to uh to help them know who I am. Um, and so it's not about the money. We use that in our skill set to reduce the complexity and to help bring clarity for those families. But our hard is the loving father that we have, they will meet him in a more intimate way, which is just being a privilege to be a coach, a mentor, or whatever it is to help them go, hey, I see God a little bit differently. Um, and so that's our motivation. And and we, you know, uh the the human side of us when we look at the level of giving that we can encourage people with and and just basically give them permission, as I said, to give the way their heart already tells them to. They just don't know they can. So we love to help give people permission to give the way their heart is already calling them to give. But and as humans, we kind of track the numbers, yeah. Uh especially as planners. But I'm always reminding our team, Snyder, about the numbers. Somebody gives $100 million away over the next 20 years. We would love to help them do that. Does God need their $100 million? Thought at all. Um, He wants their heart, He wants our heart. So as we go through that process, it's about heart change. And really, as we look at this whole topic of money, um, it's about our heart. Money is probably the truest reflection of where our heart is. It's the easiest. We deal with it every day. It causes us stress probably every day for most of us, right? Some level of stress. And yet, when we look at God's word, he says, I'm giving you all the principles. I'm giving you the my values around this. I'm showing you exactly how to do that. And if you want specifics, just listen to me. Um, and I'll give you specifics for today or or or or your giving here. So that's all available to us. And I think we need to step back and say, what's happening here? Like if I understand the biblical principles of finance, like I learned that there's a lot of things online, a lot of tools, and I still have anxiety around my money. I think that's an indicator for me personally, anyway, that I'm I'm starting to be the owner here. I need to let go and recognize God's my provider. Um, and I can I can rest in Him. That's not easy. I live in this world for decades, and I still struggle, Brian, grabbing it back, right? And trying to be the owner, but that's not what he wants. And so I think um we we need to see money as a reflection of our heart and be aware of what it's teaching us, what it's telling us.
Brian Stiller:Tim Jenkins, thank you so much for joining us in Evangelical 360.
Tim Jenkins:You're welcome. Great to be here, Brian. Thank you.
Brian Stiller:Thanks, Tim, for leading us to this critical discussion where generosity becomes a byword rather than a foreign word. And thank you, my listeners, friends, for being a part of the podcast. Remember, you can share this episode and join the conversation on YouTube. If you'd like to learn more about today's guests, check the show notes for links and info. And thanks again for joining me. And if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that button. So, until next time. Thank you. Don't miss the next interview. Be sure to subscribe to Evangelical 360 on YouTube.